Curse

draxynnic · Nov 28, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

One thing that's been irritating me more and more with the Factions/Nightfall endgame rewards is the way that you have to complete the mission all over again in order to get back in. While the missions themselves are both relatively short if you complete them successfully (heck, with Shiro in Factions, I generally feel the rule of thumb is that if he doesn't go down in ten minutes, it's usually time to go back and try a different build) it can be rather frustrating, especially if you're looking for armour, there are no groups around, and the character you want the armour for is not of a class that can hench the mission. (Some people may remember my request on one of the forums for a build that would allow a Ranger to hench Shiro - there was no useful advice, although I did eventually find a PUG that succeeded). The way I see it, if you've earned the reward, you should be able to claim it without having to rekill someone who's already dead (especially frustrating in cases I've seen where someone intends to craft endgame armour or weapons but forgot materials and/or brought the wrong ones).

So, what I'd like to see is what I thought there would be the very first time I heard of the endgame area in Factions - Ways to return to the endgame areas after completing the game without having to go through the hassle of finishing the final mission all over again. It seems that most of the mechanics are already in place - in Factions, all you would need to do is make the portal from Divine Path to the Kaineng Centre balcony two-way and placing a counterpart to Guardsman Zingpah to grant access to the balcony (although some shifting of NPCs - moving the crafters and Adepts to the courtyard where Emperor Kisu congratulates you and removing the parade would make things more realistic as well as convenient). In Nightfall's case, people who have completed the game could gain access to the Throne of Secrets through the Seer of Truth, or a new NPC stationed near the statue in order to decouple repeat access from favour.

One issue with this could be that it could allow 'ferrying' into the endgame areas, but this could probably be prevented by removing from the party (after a warning) any player who has not yet earned the right to reach the endgame area.

Thoughts?

BustroQuick · Nov 28, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Sounds good to me. A possible solution for this is to make it so the area may only be entered alone, as you don't really need allies to buy yourself new armor or exchange for an endgame green.

draxynnic · Nov 28, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

That's something I was thinking. One thing that made me hold back on that is getting to the Seer of Truths, which may later be used for something you may want to have a party for (the Nightfall elite mission or another god realm, for instance). However, it could be worked so that you can get to the Seer of Truths in a party, but taking the option to go to the Throne of Secrets sends you there alone.

In fact, come to think of it, that would have to be the way to do it - on entering the Throne of Secrets/Divine Path, you go alone. Otherwise, someone in the exclusive area could invite people outside the exclusive area into their party and then make the transition.

Hyper Cutter · Nov 28, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

/signed

When I went to get Kurenai her 15k Canthan, it took me a couple of hours to beat Shiro again (damned if I know why) so I could craft the damn armor...

kang · Nov 28, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

I agree, im shooting for primevil armour and am sick of standing there waiting for pugs every time I scrape the money together for my next piece.

and I am not taking heroes, it takes too long and is as boring as hell

Angel Netherborn · Nov 28, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

/signed

it sux to have to hench Shiro

Lafayette · Nov 28, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

(especially frustrating in cases I've seen where someone intends to craft endgame armour or weapons but forgot materials and/or brought the wrong ones).

I did this twice in Factions, for two different characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

One issue with this could be that it could allow 'ferrying' into the endgame areas, but this could probably be prevented by removing from the party (after a warning) any player who has not yet earned the right to reach the endgame area.

Signed only if ferrying is prevented.

Shadow of Light · Nov 28, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

At least Shiro can be killed fairly swiftly if you know how.

Abaddon, on the other hand...

draxynnic · Nov 28, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Indeed. My Warrior found herself designated as the official Shiro-killer - I generally don't use the endgame collectors immediately, so whenever I decided I needed a particular item, it was her job to beat the engine gored out of him. Usually took him down fast enough for Masters.

Have to go back to the old-fashioned way when getting armour for everyone else, though.

raven214 · Nov 28, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

This is a great idea. I was somewhat surprised (and saddened) to find that Nightfall's end-game area was a one-time visit like Faction's. It's not logical to have to re-beat the game just because you were poor the first time through (which I was for my Dervish's Primeval) or brought the wrong materials, etc, etc.

As mentioned above it already seems most of the components are in place... seems like common sense to me.

/signed

thelegendozelda · Nov 28, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Ever made a new guy and ran him through factions, getting to the last mission........and when you find a PUG its almost always people going back to get armor/greens/pet.......if you made the area where you could get to it easier/faster....then anyone who has beat the mission will almost likely never play the mission again....leaving people even more hopeless at finding a team

MithranArkanere · Nov 28, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

For Nightfall do not worry, I'm pretty sure the Throne of secrets will be available as an Outpost, or another outpost called 'Gate of Angish' or something like that from this weekend on (I don't now if there will be the same NPC as at the engame, thought)

For Factions, and an NPC at that unused door in Kaineng to get there again, or to a new outpot with the crafters.

draxynnic · Nov 28, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelegendozelda

Ever made a new guy and ran him through factions, getting to the last mission........and when you find a PUG its almost always people going back to get armor/greens/pet.......if you made the area where you could get to it easier/faster....then anyone who has beat the mission will almost likely never play the mission again....leaving people even more hopeless at finding a team

Most of the time I've gone through with a new character, I've done Imperial Sanctum/Abaddon's Gate with the same party I just did Raisu Palace/Madness Gate with - possibly with a couple of replacements.

I thought about that aspect of it, but on the other hand, it gives those same people time to get frustrated in getting back in. When I was trying to get in with my Ranger, it took several hours of trying to do it myself and going through with clueless PUGs who didn't listen - in order to pick up a reward I'd already earned. The first time that character went through, we went straight through with the PUG that had just done Raisu Palace and squished him like a bug.

Besides, you don't have the benefit of having an influx of people forced to redo the mission in any of the other missions of the game, many of which are harder than the end of Factions and Nightfall. Heck, making it easier to go back could actually make it EASIER to get there - because people who may otherwise be sitting in Sanctum or Abaddon's Gate trying to get their rewards again could be somewhere else pushing a different character through themselves and, in the process, helping you to get there in the first place.